Comments for MVS Mali Planning Study http://www.microventuresupport.org/blog_mali This planning study was made possible by a grant from the Argidius Foundation Sat, 03 Oct 2009 15:32:09 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 Comment on Honestly taken a few days back just stopped at traffic lights in Bamako by admin http://www.microventuresupport.org/blog_mali/?p=46&cpage=1#comment-10 admin Sat, 03 Oct 2009 15:32:09 +0000 http://www.microventuresupport.org/blog_mali/?p=46#comment-10 Just for you Emily, imagine the irony of it all if he cant actually read ; ) Just for you Emily, imagine the irony of it all if he cant actually read ; )

]]> Comment on Garretts initial thoughts on culture, education and religion by Emily http://www.microventuresupport.org/blog_mali/?p=42&cpage=1#comment-8 Emily Tue, 29 Sep 2009 20:36:38 +0000 http://www.microventuresupport.org/blog_mali/?p=42#comment-8 Hi All, Garrett, let me first say, I loved you last post. I think I now have a mark on my soul from reading it. To comment on the education bit: there is a book on economic development titled, the Elusive Quest for Growth. The book's goal is to basically debunk economic theories that have made a mark on history. One of these theories is that education is in direct correlation with economic growth; education is in fact not postively correlated with economic growth (as seen in research conducted by at least 3 economists). That said, the quality of education is what is important, hence the importance and need forMicroVenture Support. The quality of tools and resources given to a population are what really build their capacity to grow (domestically and globally). No one knows this better than the educators of the western world (e.g., Garrett) because you have seen that a quality education is the only way to reach out and change behaviors (even in those kids who "have" everything). In the words of Muhammed Yunus, "we are all entrepreneurs". All humans have the capcity to reach their full potential, we just have to give them to right tools to do so. Cheers to my friend and loved one in Mali. Good luck! Emily Hi All,

Garrett, let me first say, I loved you last post. I think I now have a mark on my soul from reading it.

To comment on the education bit: there is a book on economic development titled, the Elusive Quest for Growth. The book’s goal is to basically debunk economic theories that have made a mark on history. One of these theories is that education is in direct correlation with economic growth; education is in fact not postively correlated with economic growth (as seen in research conducted by at least 3 economists). That said, the quality of education is what is important, hence the importance and need forMicroVenture Support. The quality of tools and resources given to a population are what really build their capacity to grow (domestically and globally).

No one knows this better than the educators of the western world (e.g., Garrett) because you have seen that a quality education is the only way to reach out and change behaviors (even in those kids who “have” everything). In the words of Muhammed Yunus, “we are all entrepreneurs”. All humans have the capcity to reach their full potential, we just have to give them to right tools to do so.

Cheers to my friend and loved one in Mali. Good luck!

Emily

]]> Comment on Garretts initial thoughts on culture, education and religion by admin http://www.microventuresupport.org/blog_mali/?p=42&cpage=1#comment-7 admin Tue, 29 Sep 2009 17:41:07 +0000 http://www.microventuresupport.org/blog_mali/?p=42#comment-7 Daniel, Firstly, thanks for the time and thoughts, always great to her from others. However, my thoughts on education are not just from my own experience, but, and this is perhaps the main reason we are here is to listen and learn from the locals and foreigners that work here. I heard from ex-pats here about the educational system and the ups and downs it has experienced over the past decade. Too much detail to go into here, but another time perhaps. I followed this initial assessment with careful teasing out of the pertinent issues with locals and was told by just about all locals, something similar. The general consensus being that whatever about the cultural and religious reasoning, that in their opinion, education was the likely best, encompassing best answer. Although as ever not likely the complete answer, one that all the interested parties (and some not so interested to be honest) who we spoke to felt that offered the best chance of a broad alleviation of the basic problem. Personally I subscribe to the point of view that education is in itself a good thing for everyone, that knowledge is itself a public good and in the public good, a better educated population sees benefit in not littering, in being able to read and write, in being able to better understand basic healthcare through basic hygiene (by the by there is a world record attempt in early October in the local football stadium for the greatest number of children to be washing their hands with soap simultaneously) and so on, pictures of plastic bags in the gutter in India, with pictures showing that this clogs up waterways, which brings mozzies, which brings malaria, which brings death. Again education for a very basic purpose and one that makes sense for everyone. But I digress. I can only speak for the Irish, perhaps others can enlighten about the Italians etc. but the Irish had hedge schools when education was banned for Catholics, teachers and students alike risked life and limb for education, and for no discernible reason. Just an example which may add to the plot. Also when you are aware that the general population is lowly educated then it is easier to get on when you have some, a view which may or may not hold water for the general population. And then of course you have people who learn purely for the pleasure of it, that knowledge in itself adds to your personal wellbeing and not just for health and employment, but for a better understanding of the world around you. You are right about the potential of a study of ex-pat Malians in the EU and US, it would be interesting, but also have a look at Asian ex-pats in the EU and US, phenomenally successful in educational terms from one generation to the next. So, what the hell am I saying?, perhaps I am too educated and too dumb at the same time to know. I shall expand on this later, suffice to say that I am becoming ever more convinced of the ratchet effect of human development, personal and societal, and that this process is somehow natural. That when people have access to adequate water, food, shelter, some energy, and basic healthcare, that there is some innate human desire/want, to learn, to acquire basic knowledge, to understand more. Thanks for the time and thoughts and apologies for the amount of both you have just gotten from me. Garrett Daniel,
Firstly, thanks for the time and thoughts, always great to her from others. However, my thoughts on education are not just from my own experience, but, and this is perhaps the main reason we are here is to listen and learn from the locals and foreigners that work here.
I heard from ex-pats here about the educational system and the ups and downs it has experienced over the past decade. Too much detail to go into here, but another time perhaps.
I followed this initial assessment with careful teasing out of the pertinent issues with locals and was told by just about all locals, something similar. The general consensus being that whatever about the cultural and religious reasoning, that in their opinion, education was the likely best, encompassing best answer. Although as ever not likely the complete answer, one that all the interested parties (and some not so interested to be honest) who we spoke to felt that offered the best chance of a broad alleviation of the basic problem.

Personally I subscribe to the point of view that education is in itself a good thing for everyone, that knowledge is itself a public good and in the public good, a better educated population sees benefit in not littering, in being able to read and write, in being able to better understand basic healthcare through basic hygiene (by the by there is a world record attempt in early October in the local football stadium for the greatest number of children to be washing their hands with soap simultaneously) and so on, pictures of plastic bags in the gutter in India, with pictures showing that this clogs up waterways, which brings mozzies, which brings malaria, which brings death. Again education for a very basic purpose and one that makes sense for everyone. But I digress.

I can only speak for the Irish, perhaps others can enlighten about the Italians etc. but the Irish had hedge schools when education was banned for Catholics, teachers and students alike risked life and limb for education, and for no discernible reason. Just an example which may add to the plot.

Also when you are aware that the general population is lowly educated then it is easier to get on when you have some, a view which may or may not hold water for the general population.
And then of course you have people who learn purely for the pleasure of it, that knowledge in itself adds to your personal wellbeing and not just for health and employment, but for a better understanding of the world around you.

You are right about the potential of a study of ex-pat Malians in the EU and US, it would be interesting, but also have a look at Asian ex-pats in the EU and US, phenomenally successful in educational terms from one generation to the next.

So, what the hell am I saying?, perhaps I am too educated and too dumb at the same time to know.

I shall expand on this later, suffice to say that I am becoming ever more convinced of the ratchet effect of human development, personal and societal, and that this process is somehow natural.

That when people have access to adequate water, food, shelter, some energy, and basic healthcare, that there is some innate human desire/want, to learn, to acquire basic knowledge, to understand more.

Thanks for the time and thoughts and apologies for the amount of both you have just gotten from me.

Garrett

]]> Comment on Garretts initial thoughts on culture, education and religion by Daniel http://www.microventuresupport.org/blog_mali/?p=42&cpage=1#comment-5 Daniel Mon, 28 Sep 2009 09:55:45 +0000 http://www.microventuresupport.org/blog_mali/?p=42#comment-5 Garrett -- a fascinating observation, though I wonder whether your solution (education) is correct. First education itself constitutes planning for the future -- if you don't foresee better income, opportunity, etc. from education, there's little reason to pursue it. A counterexample -- the multitude of immigrants who came to US in the late 19th & early 20th century represented many cultures (Irish, Italian, Jewish, etc.), and were as a rule generally uneducated. The average Malian today may in fact have the same or even higher general educational level than the majority of these immigrants, yet the latter specifically WERE planning -- for themselves, for their children. Immigration itself was investing for the future -- saving up all their money for the transatlantic voyage for the hope of better opportunities. So, perhaps education isn't the reason for the attitude you describe. Let me suggest that this attitude may in many respects be a perfectly logical and even appropriate response to one's environment. Planning & investing requires expectation of future stability -- if you're a business owner, you have little reason to invest into your business if you think the country may plunge into civil war. If you're squatting in a slum, there's little reason to invest in your house if it may be bulldozed at moment's notice. If you're a farmer, there's little reason to invest if you can be destroyed by drought. The cultural attitude may thus simply be a reflection of this instability in one's environment. A good counterpoint would be to look at the expat Malian community in Europe & US, and see whether the same cultural norms against planning persist, and for how long. Keep the observations flowing! Daniel Garrett — a fascinating observation, though I wonder whether your solution (education) is correct. First education itself constitutes planning for the future — if you don’t foresee better income, opportunity, etc. from education, there’s little reason to pursue it. A counterexample — the multitude of immigrants who came to US in the late 19th & early 20th century represented many cultures (Irish, Italian, Jewish, etc.), and were as a rule generally uneducated. The average Malian today may in fact have the same or even higher general educational level than the majority of these immigrants, yet the latter specifically WERE planning — for themselves, for their children. Immigration itself was investing for the future — saving up all their money for the transatlantic voyage for the hope of better opportunities. So, perhaps education isn’t the reason for the attitude you describe.

Let me suggest that this attitude may in many respects be a perfectly logical and even appropriate response to one’s environment. Planning & investing requires expectation of future stability — if you’re a business owner, you have little reason to invest into your business if you think the country may plunge into civil war. If you’re squatting in a slum, there’s little reason to invest in your house if it may be bulldozed at moment’s notice. If you’re a farmer, there’s little reason to invest if you can be destroyed by drought. The cultural attitude may thus simply be a reflection of this instability in one’s environment. A good counterpoint would be to look at the expat Malian community in Europe & US, and see whether the same cultural norms against planning persist, and for how long.

Keep the observations flowing!
Daniel

]]> Comment on Why Are We Here? by alonzo http://www.microventuresupport.org/blog_mali/?p=9&cpage=1#comment-4 alonzo Fri, 25 Sep 2009 22:20:11 +0000 http://www.microventuresupport.org/blog_mali/?p=9#comment-4 It very interesting how we as westerners feel like we have the answers for those in need and when we get to dealing with the realities of others, those answers tend to bend in unexpected directions. Reflection on 9/25 blog It very interesting how we as westerners feel like we have the answers for those in need and when we get to dealing with the realities of others, those answers tend to bend in unexpected directions. Reflection on 9/25 blog

]]> Comment on Pictures of Mali by alonzo http://www.microventuresupport.org/blog_mali/?p=25&cpage=1#comment-3 alonzo Thu, 24 Sep 2009 20:56:18 +0000 http://www.microventuresupport.org/blog_mali/?p=25#comment-3 Hey, I like knowing how you all are progressing. I hope you and Garrett have it a stride and are linking up with the contacts you need to make your project(s) work. My best to you both, Alonzo Hey,
I like knowing how you all are progressing. I hope you and Garrett have it a stride and are linking up with the contacts you need to make your project(s) work. My best to you both, Alonzo

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